This is the right time to join litigation – Vivek Reddy of Vivek Reddy Law Chambers

After working for nearly half a decade in the US, NLSIU-grad Vivek Reddy came back to India and began a litigation practice in Hyderabad. Eight years into the field, Reddy now has a significant presence in the city with his firm Vivek Reddy Law Chambers..In this interview with Bar & Bench, he talks about what it takes to become a successful litigating lawyer, coming back to India, and what kept him going through the initial difficulties..Anuj Agrawal: After your LL.M, you worked in the US for a few years before returning..Vivek Reddy: I always wanted to join litigation immediately but after graduating from NLS Bangalore, I got into the Harvard Masters Programme. Also, the judge with whom I was clerking strongly recommended that I should go to the US. And when I finished that, my professor said, “Since you are anyway going back to India, why don’t you go and work in a US firm first?”.Initially I was supposed to work for one year, but then one year became almost five. But at the back of my mind, I always wanted to come back to India. I also realized that the more I invest myself in US, the more difficult it will be for me to come back here. So in 2008 I shifted to India..When I surveyed the Indian litigation market I always felt that it was very inefficient and unstructured. But that lack of structure was a source of opportunity, something that you will not find in a sophisticated litigation market. For example, in the US you cannot do the wide variety of work that a litigation lawyer in India does..When I surveyed the Indian litigation market I always felt that it was very inefficient and unstructured. But that lack of structure was a source of opportunity, something that you will not find in a sophisticated litigation market..Anuj Agrawal: It must have been difficult coming back..Vivek Reddy: Since I always wanted to come back here, it was not a difficult decision. It is certainly more easy for transactional lawyers. If you are doing M&A in the US, it is an helpful skill when you want to do the same work in India. But if you are doing litigation in the US, it is not exactly a transferable skill to India. So, I thought I would have to start afresh..But I turned out to be wrong..When I came back here, I found several companies were actually in need of someone who had a US litigation background. A lot of these companies were being sued in the United States and were subject to regulatory investigations. Having done that work in the US for several years, I was able to assist these companies in responding to these issues..In fact, the moment I came back, the first thing that happened was the Satyam fraud in the January of 2009..Anuj Agrawal: You mentioned that the Indian legal market has certain inefficiencies..Vivek Reddy: It can be as simple as responding to the client. Our profession is such that people come to us only when there is an emergency. And in that moment of emergency, the first thing the client needs is for someone to respond to the crisis. The US and UK firms recognize this and respond very well..I have seen top attorneys in the US responding to a crisis within hours and saying, “This is what I know. This is what I don’t know. And, based on this information, this is how we can move ahead.”.In India it is simply difficult to get your attorney to spend time, and respond to your situation within hours. Most Indian lawyers, even at sophisticated law firms, do not have this culture of responding to the client. This is probably because of supply-demand issue. We have too many companies chasing too few firms..Most Indian lawyers, even at sophisticated law firms, do not have this culture of responding to the client. This is probably because of supply-demand issue. We have too many companies chasing too few firms..Anuj Agrawal: Do you find Indian clients a bit pushy?.Vivek Reddy: All clients are pushy but I think it is the other way round. I think that Indian clients don’t get good service for the rates they pay..Anuj Agrawal: So Indian lawyers are over paid?.Vivek Reddy: At the top, definitely yes. Clients routinely complain that senior counsels in India are over paid. I think the top lawyers in India earn much more than top lawyers of New York..Anuj Agrawal: And why do you think this is so?.Vivek Reddy: Because of the inefficiency and acute scarcity of competent lawyers in the legal profession. If you look at the major law schools in the country, out of a graduating class of 80 or 100, a few of them are joining litigation..Now when all these go to the top law firms, out of the 100 deals they work on, there are likely to be disputes in 10 or 15 deals at least. When these disputes come into Court, you have a few competent lawyers who are able to take on such work..Anuj Agrawal: Was Hyderabad a tough market to crack?.Vivek Reddy: It was easy in the sense that I was from here. But, it was tough in the sense that I had to go through what every junior lawyer goes through. You have several frustrating and uninspiring days, but you have to remember that in litigation every day is a new day, and if you keep at it, you are bound to succeed..Initially I would have said that a good lawyer is someone who has talent, someone who has the ability to think through things. I think all those things help. But after eight years of Indian litigation, I would say the most important skill in litigation is perseverance and just being at it..But after eight years of Indian litigation, I would say the most important skill in litigation is perseverance and just being at it..Anuj Agrawal: What kept you going?.Vivek Reddy: The belief that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It is a very steep curve, but if you persevere and you are at it, it does actually pay off. Now what is happening is that because the senior counsels have too much work, every senior is looking for competent juniors to assist..Anuj Agrawal: Your thoughts on Bar Associations?.Vivek Reddy: I strongly believe that the entire model of self-regulation has failed. I do not think that we self-regulate enough. Just look at it statistically. How many disciplinary complaints are filed?.In administrative law, we use the word “regulatory capture” where the regulator has been captured by the regulated. The legal profession is a classic instance. We have so many cases where lawyers don’t even show up, clients suffer but nothing happens. And the courts say that we can’t even be hauled up under the Consumer Protection Act because we are not providing a service. What remedy does a client have then?.Anuj Agrawal: What do you think can be done?.Vivek Reddy: Get lawyers out of the process. The Bar Councils should get out of legal education. There have been a lot of complaints where these Councils collect bribes from law colleges for certifying them. We could have an independent regulatory body with former judges who treat it like a proper court. Today, there is no deterrent against lawyers. So many suits are dismissed on grounds of limitation every single day!.Today, there is no deterrent against lawyers. So many suits are dismissed on grounds of limitation every single day!.Anuj Agrawal: Any advice for law students or young lawyers?.Vivek Reddy: I would strongly recommend everyone that if you have even a tiny bit of interest in doing litigation, this is the right time to join..In litigation, the other side lawyer is only there to prove me wrong. So I have to prove that I am correct and he is wrong. That requires enormous intellectual effort. In transactional practice, everything is a collaboration. You have to get the deal done. As you go higher up the chain, the lawyer is no longer a lawyer, but more like a shepherd. He has to get the banker, he has to get the parties together, the accountant etc..I think it was Fali Nariman who said this, and I agree that, “There is no greater thrill for a lawyer than when he comes out of a court after making a sound argument.” I mean whether you win or not, once you make a tenable argument, and you are able to capture a judge and persuade him to your view point – that is the greatest thrill. That is the biggest reward..Anuj Agrawal: When your juniors make a mistake, how do you deal with that?.Vivek Reddy: (Smiles) I was short-tempered but I am slowly making an effort as I realize that it is not worth it in the long run. You just have to really suck it in and say, “This not what you should have done.” But I strongly believe that it is important to spend time to train the junior colleagues who come and join you..They come to you to learn and I think it is important that one must engage with a junior. You have to keep pushing your junior to extract the very best out of him. There has to be a trial by fire..Anuj Agrawal: Would you ever practice in the Supreme Court?.Vivek Reddy: That is a daily thought but these things are difficult to decide. Unfortunately, High Courts have ceased to be places where the important action is. There is a lot of work in the High Court but India has become so much Supreme Court-centric..Anuj Agrawal: Do you recommend studying law?.Vivek Reddy: [laughs] Definitely. Law is one of the most analytical fields. It is philosophy taken to the market place. But 17 [years] is too young to be a lawyer. Actually 17 is too young to be a professional. Studying law is like sharpening a knife- your mind becomes sharper, but also becomes narrower! You become extremely analytical but in a very narrow way..Anuj Agrawal: In what sense?.Vivek Reddy: I have seen in the US, the enormous difference a good undergraduate education makes. People come to law after after studying economics, fine arts, philosophy, political science and that changes the kind of lawyer the person is going to become..The 5-year model was a reaction to the failure of the postgraduate model; they thought, “Let’s get the guys raw like they do for the IIT’s”.It has plus points but nothing compared to a good foundation at the undergraduate level. One of the downfalls of the 5-year model is that a person without any serious foundation is studying law..The 5-year model was a reaction to the failure of the postgraduate model; they thought let’s get the guys raw like they do for the IIT’s. It has plus points but nothing compared to a good foundation at the undergraduate level..There is this story of a young student asking Justice Frankfurter, “I want to become a good lawyer, what should I do?” He said, “Don’t read any of the law books, don’t even open them! Go to a play or a museum, read some of the great books.” I think that is the greatest education you can get to become a good lawyer.