In the second part of Standing Counsel before Sitting Judges, we profile advocate Liz Mathew, the Standing Counsel for the State of Kerala..NLS, Reliance and Supreme Court .“I wanted to be an economist”, says Liz Mathew as we sit down in a consultation room at the Supreme Court. “I came into the legal field primarily due to the National Law School, Bangalore (NLS). The inspiration to do law came from clearing the NLS entrance.”.Although Mathew interned with Senior Advocate Indu Malhotra during her student days and found it exciting, she was not confident about setting foot in litigation. “I enjoyed working with Indu Malhotra but I wasn’t sure [about litigating]. I did not have any lawyers in my family. I thought it would be easier to do a corporate job and I was not very confident that I would be able to make it in litigation.”.Opting for the more popular route, she sat for campus placements and got recruited by Reliance, where she worked on a retainer basis. This meant that she was not working “in house” for any one, specific company. “We had a General Counsel who was a Partner at Kanga & Co. He was a lawyer with a fair amount of litigation experience. Since, I was a retainer and not working in house for one company, there was a good deal of variety. We were doing work for the oil and gas department, telecom department and arbitration work for some other departments. So it was like working with a law firm.”.During her three-year stint, she realised that it was arbitration and litigation matters that interested her. “By that time, I also had the confidence that I could do well in litigation. Also, I was finding agreement related work to be very boring.” So, in 2004, she moved to Delhi and started her practice under Indu Malhotra, where she worked for two years..“Indu Malhotra was a fantastic teacher”, says Mathew, “I learned drafting from scratch, and qualities like paying attention to detail [from her]. I also had the opportunity to go for a number of conferences and brief senior lawyers. It was an interesting experience and there was complete involvement in matters. But my appearance in court was limited.”.From 2006 to 2008, Mathew worked with Senior Advocate KK Venugopal. In her words “With KK Venugopal, it was a completely different experience. You learn how to think through matters, to think out of the box and to come up with legal strategies that would help the client. He used to say that all laws relate to common sense. ‘You think backwards with common sense and you will find a solution to any problem.’ Working with him was again a very good experience.”.Standing Counsel.In 2008, Mathew cleared the Advocate on Record (AoR) Exam and set up her independent practice. She was appointed Standing Counsel for the State of Kerala in 2011 and says that the exposure as a Standing Counsel has been excellent. “I began to appear in Court regularly. Before being appointed Standing Counsel, I was not appearing in court everyday but only filing matters as an AoR. I had never worked in the Kerala High Court. So, the work I used to get before my appointment as Standing Counsel was mostly referral matters from different friends in law school. Those used to be fairly high profile matters and it would invariably involve senior counsels.”.With regard to her role as the Standing Counsel, Mathew says,.“Standing Counsel represents the State in its matters before the Supreme Court. Some States have an Additional Advocate General posted in the Supreme Court under whom the Standing Counsel works. As far as Kerala is concerned, there are only five Standing Counsel. We don’t have any panel of lawyers. So these Standing Counsel are in charge of doing all the litigation.A lot of other States have Panel Lawyers and the Standing Counsel, who is an AoR, only handles the filing. But as far as Kerala is concerned, you have complete responsibility with respect to the matter. And you take instructions only from the Advocate General.”.Cases from Kerala and role of the Advocate General.She is very vocal about the cases she gets to handle from the Kerala government. “The variety that you get from Kerala is amazing. The Padmanabha Swamy matter was quite an experience. Then we get to deal with tax matters, criminal matters and abkari matters; it is a huge variety of very interesting matters. That way the work has become extremely interesting. When I started, we had about 2,500 files divided between five Standing Counsel.”.Briefs to a Standing Counsel of Kerala are marked from the office of the Advocate General of Kerala. There is a law officer who works out of the Kerala House to help co ordinate with various govt departments etc. to get information..The division of work between the five Standing Counsel is the prerogative of the Advocate General and every Standing Counsel gets a variety of matters. So the distribution of work is not based on the type of matters. However, “sometimes it can happen that forest matters are with one Standing Counsel. So, if a Standing Counsel interacts more with that department, they might want to engage that particular Standing Counsel. Otherwise, it is normally the Advocate General who decides. The Advocate General also sends a list of work once in every five months and it is pretty much equally divided.”.Working for the Kerala government.Mathew says that the Standing Counsel has the freedom to differ from the opinion of the Advocate General’s office when it comes to deciding whether to agitate a particular matter in the Supreme Court or not. “When it comes to matters that come from the High Court, usually the government pleader or someone who is conversant with the case in the High Court gives an opinion on whether to file an SLP or not. But considering the huge expense that is required for a normal litigant to come from a far flung place etc., we have to take a more holistic view and say that it does not make sense to agitate certain matters. So, sometimes even the government has to take a view which is more humane rather than extremely legal. Also, what I have found with respect to briefs that come from Kerala is that the legal opinions given by the government pleaders are extremely reasonable and very rarely do I have to contradict.”.When it comes to Kerala, the appointment of a Standing Counsel is for a period of three years. Usually, it is extended for another three years but elections happen in between and the Standing Counsel resign with a change in the government..The Kerala government is not very keen on engaging Senior Advocates and the arguing is usually done by Standing Counsel themselves. “Out of nearly five hundred matters that I have handled, I have engaged a senior counsel for two matters: one was a tax matter where the amount involved was huge and the second was the Padmanabha Swamy temple matter in which we engaged ASG KV Vishwanathan after the amicus curiae submitted his report..It is a conscious decision on the part of the government, the Advocate General and the Standing Counsel that a Senior Advocate’s service would be availed only in matters wherein it is very necessary. “Except in very sensitive matters, the engagement of Senior Advocates has been reduced. Also we have a panel of ten Senior Advocates. They are the only ones whom we can engage apart from the AG, SG and ASGs. So the choice is limited to ten people.”.Difficulties and work life balance.The biggest flip side to being a Standing Counsel is that the remuneration is very low. For drafting an SLP, a Standing Counsel of Kerala is paid a sum Rs. 750; for an appearance it is Rs. 1,000 and for arguing a final hearing matter they get Rs. 1500. There is a fee schedule which prescribes the fees. “I have one junior. There are three external lawyers to help me with drafting etc. if necessary and if I am hard pressed for time. It is not easy to sustain a big office on the resources from the State.”.About how difficult it was to start as a woman lawyer, Liz Mathew says that it was fairly easy for her..“I think I have been living in a bubble. With Indu Malhotra’s chamber, it was a very secure chamber. She was very protective. In KK Venugopal’s office also, there was no question of any problems. I have been in a very secure atmosphere. My husband Raghenth Basant is a lawyer. Also, being from a Law School, I had a set of seniors and people to whom I could go to [for help]. So, personally I have not had any issues. But I do know of others for whom the ride has not been so smooth. I was fortunate that way.”.However, she recounts her days at the Supreme Court when she was pregnant..“I was in Court on the sixth day after my second baby was born. On that day, the Court passed over the matter and decided that it would take it up at the end of the board and finish it. I had my six day old baby in the car with my mother because I did not want to leave the baby alone.So the Supreme Court offers no institutional support that way. And I worked all through my pregnancy. On Mondays and Fridays, it is absolutely hazardous to walk through the corridors. I think a couple of times, a couple of lady lawyers may have stood up to give me a chair in the courtroom. But otherwise there was absolutely no concern from anybody.”.Mathew, however, immediately says that,.“In fact, it is not about lack of concern. People don’t have time to notice because all are rushing from one courtroom to another. When I am engrossed in my work, even I might not have the time to watch out for other people. So, I guess that is the way the Supreme Court functions. I don’t demand a different treatment as a woman. It is a challenge that I have taken upon myself. I get tremendous support from my family and so I don’t expect it from others because if you expect everyone to watch out for you, no one will and you will be disappointed.”.(The first part of this series was an interview with Asha Gopalan Nair, the Standing Counsel for Maharashtra)
In the second part of Standing Counsel before Sitting Judges, we profile advocate Liz Mathew, the Standing Counsel for the State of Kerala..NLS, Reliance and Supreme Court .“I wanted to be an economist”, says Liz Mathew as we sit down in a consultation room at the Supreme Court. “I came into the legal field primarily due to the National Law School, Bangalore (NLS). The inspiration to do law came from clearing the NLS entrance.”.Although Mathew interned with Senior Advocate Indu Malhotra during her student days and found it exciting, she was not confident about setting foot in litigation. “I enjoyed working with Indu Malhotra but I wasn’t sure [about litigating]. I did not have any lawyers in my family. I thought it would be easier to do a corporate job and I was not very confident that I would be able to make it in litigation.”.Opting for the more popular route, she sat for campus placements and got recruited by Reliance, where she worked on a retainer basis. This meant that she was not working “in house” for any one, specific company. “We had a General Counsel who was a Partner at Kanga & Co. He was a lawyer with a fair amount of litigation experience. Since, I was a retainer and not working in house for one company, there was a good deal of variety. We were doing work for the oil and gas department, telecom department and arbitration work for some other departments. So it was like working with a law firm.”.During her three-year stint, she realised that it was arbitration and litigation matters that interested her. “By that time, I also had the confidence that I could do well in litigation. Also, I was finding agreement related work to be very boring.” So, in 2004, she moved to Delhi and started her practice under Indu Malhotra, where she worked for two years..“Indu Malhotra was a fantastic teacher”, says Mathew, “I learned drafting from scratch, and qualities like paying attention to detail [from her]. I also had the opportunity to go for a number of conferences and brief senior lawyers. It was an interesting experience and there was complete involvement in matters. But my appearance in court was limited.”.From 2006 to 2008, Mathew worked with Senior Advocate KK Venugopal. In her words “With KK Venugopal, it was a completely different experience. You learn how to think through matters, to think out of the box and to come up with legal strategies that would help the client. He used to say that all laws relate to common sense. ‘You think backwards with common sense and you will find a solution to any problem.’ Working with him was again a very good experience.”.Standing Counsel.In 2008, Mathew cleared the Advocate on Record (AoR) Exam and set up her independent practice. She was appointed Standing Counsel for the State of Kerala in 2011 and says that the exposure as a Standing Counsel has been excellent. “I began to appear in Court regularly. Before being appointed Standing Counsel, I was not appearing in court everyday but only filing matters as an AoR. I had never worked in the Kerala High Court. So, the work I used to get before my appointment as Standing Counsel was mostly referral matters from different friends in law school. Those used to be fairly high profile matters and it would invariably involve senior counsels.”.With regard to her role as the Standing Counsel, Mathew says,.“Standing Counsel represents the State in its matters before the Supreme Court. Some States have an Additional Advocate General posted in the Supreme Court under whom the Standing Counsel works. As far as Kerala is concerned, there are only five Standing Counsel. We don’t have any panel of lawyers. So these Standing Counsel are in charge of doing all the litigation.A lot of other States have Panel Lawyers and the Standing Counsel, who is an AoR, only handles the filing. But as far as Kerala is concerned, you have complete responsibility with respect to the matter. And you take instructions only from the Advocate General.”.Cases from Kerala and role of the Advocate General.She is very vocal about the cases she gets to handle from the Kerala government. “The variety that you get from Kerala is amazing. The Padmanabha Swamy matter was quite an experience. Then we get to deal with tax matters, criminal matters and abkari matters; it is a huge variety of very interesting matters. That way the work has become extremely interesting. When I started, we had about 2,500 files divided between five Standing Counsel.”.Briefs to a Standing Counsel of Kerala are marked from the office of the Advocate General of Kerala. There is a law officer who works out of the Kerala House to help co ordinate with various govt departments etc. to get information..The division of work between the five Standing Counsel is the prerogative of the Advocate General and every Standing Counsel gets a variety of matters. So the distribution of work is not based on the type of matters. However, “sometimes it can happen that forest matters are with one Standing Counsel. So, if a Standing Counsel interacts more with that department, they might want to engage that particular Standing Counsel. Otherwise, it is normally the Advocate General who decides. The Advocate General also sends a list of work once in every five months and it is pretty much equally divided.”.Working for the Kerala government.Mathew says that the Standing Counsel has the freedom to differ from the opinion of the Advocate General’s office when it comes to deciding whether to agitate a particular matter in the Supreme Court or not. “When it comes to matters that come from the High Court, usually the government pleader or someone who is conversant with the case in the High Court gives an opinion on whether to file an SLP or not. But considering the huge expense that is required for a normal litigant to come from a far flung place etc., we have to take a more holistic view and say that it does not make sense to agitate certain matters. So, sometimes even the government has to take a view which is more humane rather than extremely legal. Also, what I have found with respect to briefs that come from Kerala is that the legal opinions given by the government pleaders are extremely reasonable and very rarely do I have to contradict.”.When it comes to Kerala, the appointment of a Standing Counsel is for a period of three years. Usually, it is extended for another three years but elections happen in between and the Standing Counsel resign with a change in the government..The Kerala government is not very keen on engaging Senior Advocates and the arguing is usually done by Standing Counsel themselves. “Out of nearly five hundred matters that I have handled, I have engaged a senior counsel for two matters: one was a tax matter where the amount involved was huge and the second was the Padmanabha Swamy temple matter in which we engaged ASG KV Vishwanathan after the amicus curiae submitted his report..It is a conscious decision on the part of the government, the Advocate General and the Standing Counsel that a Senior Advocate’s service would be availed only in matters wherein it is very necessary. “Except in very sensitive matters, the engagement of Senior Advocates has been reduced. Also we have a panel of ten Senior Advocates. They are the only ones whom we can engage apart from the AG, SG and ASGs. So the choice is limited to ten people.”.Difficulties and work life balance.The biggest flip side to being a Standing Counsel is that the remuneration is very low. For drafting an SLP, a Standing Counsel of Kerala is paid a sum Rs. 750; for an appearance it is Rs. 1,000 and for arguing a final hearing matter they get Rs. 1500. There is a fee schedule which prescribes the fees. “I have one junior. There are three external lawyers to help me with drafting etc. if necessary and if I am hard pressed for time. It is not easy to sustain a big office on the resources from the State.”.About how difficult it was to start as a woman lawyer, Liz Mathew says that it was fairly easy for her..“I think I have been living in a bubble. With Indu Malhotra’s chamber, it was a very secure chamber. She was very protective. In KK Venugopal’s office also, there was no question of any problems. I have been in a very secure atmosphere. My husband Raghenth Basant is a lawyer. Also, being from a Law School, I had a set of seniors and people to whom I could go to [for help]. So, personally I have not had any issues. But I do know of others for whom the ride has not been so smooth. I was fortunate that way.”.However, she recounts her days at the Supreme Court when she was pregnant..“I was in Court on the sixth day after my second baby was born. On that day, the Court passed over the matter and decided that it would take it up at the end of the board and finish it. I had my six day old baby in the car with my mother because I did not want to leave the baby alone.So the Supreme Court offers no institutional support that way. And I worked all through my pregnancy. On Mondays and Fridays, it is absolutely hazardous to walk through the corridors. I think a couple of times, a couple of lady lawyers may have stood up to give me a chair in the courtroom. But otherwise there was absolutely no concern from anybody.”.Mathew, however, immediately says that,.“In fact, it is not about lack of concern. People don’t have time to notice because all are rushing from one courtroom to another. When I am engrossed in my work, even I might not have the time to watch out for other people. So, I guess that is the way the Supreme Court functions. I don’t demand a different treatment as a woman. It is a challenge that I have taken upon myself. I get tremendous support from my family and so I don’t expect it from others because if you expect everyone to watch out for you, no one will and you will be disappointed.”.(The first part of this series was an interview with Asha Gopalan Nair, the Standing Counsel for Maharashtra)
