P Wilson is a Senior Advocate at the Madras High Court. A former Assistant Solicitor General of India, Wilson has climbed through the ranks at a relatively young age..In this interview with Bar & Bench’s Aditya AK, he talks about his fight to reform the education system in Tamil Nadu, the reasons behind frequent agitations at the Madras High Court, and more..Aditya AK: How were your early years of practice?.P Wilson: I did my law at Madras Law College and graduated in 1989. I started my practice on the civil side under my senior KV Venkatapathy, who would later become Advocate General. I practised in district courts, rent control courts and consumer courts..My senior had a lot of cases in the original and the writ side. The Madras High Court, being a chartered court, has original jurisdiction, so we received a lot of exposure on the original side..I started independent practice in 1996 and was appointed Standing Counsel for a number of government bodies. In 2001, I was appointed as central government standing counsel..AK: Was is it difficult in the beginning?.PW: Initially, all litigating lawyers have teething problems. Once you reach the courts, you find yourself in an entirely different system. Those days, we didn’t have internships, so we weren’t exposed to it. On entering practice right after law school, we found it difficult to understand court procedures. In the beginning, we were used by seniors for adjournments. Later, they would entrust us with arguing matters..AK: You were the youngest Additional Solicitor General of Tamil Nadu. How would you describe that experience?.PW: The post carried a lot of responsibilities, so I had to be well equipped. While representing the central government, I often didn’t get instructions in time. In those days, the state did not provide adequate infrastructure to a law officer of the stature of an Additional Solicitor General. There was no office, no staff, no computers, not even a telephone..In those days, the state did not provide adequate infrastructure to a law officer of the stature of an Assistant Solicitor General. There was no office, no staff, no computers, not even a telephone..When I became ASG in 2006, the then Chief Justice of the Madras High Court, Justice AP Shah was kind enough to give me a chamber on the high court premises. In fact, he called the Assistant Registrar, who was occupying a room which was situated near all the court rooms, and told him to vacate the room by the same evening to accommodate me..AK: You were instrumental in defending the state government’s policies related to the education system in Tamil Nadu..PW: In Tamil Nadu, there were four systems of school education. When the state government wanted to bring in a unified system of education, it was fought in the court. On one side, you had the biggest senior counsels representing the private schools. On the other side, I was defending the government’s move. The matter later went to the Supreme Court and I succeeded in bringing the uniform system in place..Once the government changed, the new government wanted to do away with this system. I appeared in a PIL filed to stay the amendment of the Act, and was again successful..The DMK government also wanted to regulate school fees, for which they brought it in the Tamil Nadu Schools (Regulation of Collection of Fee) Act. This the first Act of its kind in the country; the concept was referred to by the Supreme Court in many cases including TMA Pai..The schools felt that if the Act was passed, their control over the education of system might go. These were schools that were charging 2-3 lakhs per year, for which there was no basis. Therefore, only the children of rich parents could go to these schools..This matter also found its way to the courts, with the schools claiming that their fundamental rights were being violated. I defended the legislation in the High Court, with a team of government lawyers and we succeeded in showing to the court as to how the owners of these schools were minting money and purchasing estates in foreign countries. What they were doing amounted to commercialization of education..Taking all things into consideration, we were able to come up with a fee structure that was reasonable. Today, you will find that parents are not financially encumbered; previously, you would find them mortgaging their jewellery in order to afford the school fees..AK: But isn’t there a possibility of the standard of education being lowered?.PW: Those studying in remote areas didn’t have access to the education a child from the city received. This disparity is taken away by the uniform system of education. It doesn’t mean that the education standard in the best schools is lowered, it just makes the standard equal everywhere..AK: How would you compare your experiences at the Supreme Court and the Madras High Court?.PW: In the Supreme Court, we know the cases in advance, so that helps us plan our arguments better. On the other hand, at the high court, there will be sudden listing of cases, so it is more difficult to be fully prepared. Having said that, the judges understand this and are willing to accommodate us..AK: Should advocates be allowed to apply to become seniors?.PW: Yes, because there is a thorough procedure in place. While applying to become a senior, the court asks for the applicant’s income tax returns, the details of the number of cases he has appeared in, and for two other Senior Advocates to nominate them. After getting this information, the Full Court Committee decides on who should be conferred with the title. I became a Senior Advocate at the age of 42. When I applied, only those applicants with two-thirds of the votes could be conferred the title. Out of 20 applicants, only 3 got two-thirds of the Committee’s votes..AK: What is the reason for the high pendency of cases?.PW: I would only blame our Bar. At the Madras High Court, our Chief Justice has taken the best efforts to reduce pendency. As soon as he became Chief Justice, he recommended nine new judges for the high court. But, there were a lot of problems; people with vested interests blocked the names. While he wanted to fill up the vacancies, the Bar did not allow him to do it. What they don’t realize is that ultimately, it is the Bar that suffers..While he wanted to fill up the vacancies, the Bar did not allow him to do it. What they don’t realize is that ultimately, it is the Bar that suffers..AK: What changes have you seen at the Bar and the Bench over the years?.PW: As far as the Madras High Court is concerned, we have a chequered history. It is one of the chartered courts; even the Supreme Court was originally established here. A lot of constitutional cases emanated from our high court. Eminent lawyers like KK Venugopal and K Parasaran, who are currently in the Supreme Court, had beginnings here..At the Bar, I find that the new entrants over the last 4-5 years are not working hard. They have to understand that they have to work hard to expect good returns. Young lawyers, who are not guided properly are getting restless. That is the reason we see boycotts and other problems at the high court. The duty lies on the senior lawyers and the government to frame some procedures to prevent this..Another reason is the quality of legal education in the state. Currently, the government is opposed to having too many private law colleges. The standard needs to be improved at the government law colleges..The persons who are indulging in agitations are the ones that don’t regularly appear in courts. Those that do not take the profession seriously must not be allowed inside the campus..AK: Has it reached a point where something drastic needs to be done?.PW: Earlier, the government had introduced a scheme to give a stipend to juniors. This helped the fresh lawyers, especially those from difficult backgrounds, to survive the initial years of this profession. Unfortunately, this has stopped, due to various reasons..I feel that self-introspection is the only cure to these constant strikes and agitations. People seem to have forgotten that this is a noble profession. A client comes to you and sees you as a God. He puts all his trust in you, and therefore you owe it to him to be disciplined..People seem to have forgotten that this is a noble profession. A client comes to you and sees you as a God. He puts all his trust in you, and therefore you owe it to him to be disciplined..AK: Chief Justice Kaul recently spoke about the introduction of an AoR system at the high court. Do you think this is a solution?.PW: It is a tested procedure which exists in the Supreme Court, but I don’t know how exactly the high court is going to bring this system into place. It may yield results by eliminating persons who are not really interested in the profession. It would be a good move in order to make this profession more respectable and the advocates more responsible.
P Wilson is a Senior Advocate at the Madras High Court. A former Assistant Solicitor General of India, Wilson has climbed through the ranks at a relatively young age..In this interview with Bar & Bench’s Aditya AK, he talks about his fight to reform the education system in Tamil Nadu, the reasons behind frequent agitations at the Madras High Court, and more..Aditya AK: How were your early years of practice?.P Wilson: I did my law at Madras Law College and graduated in 1989. I started my practice on the civil side under my senior KV Venkatapathy, who would later become Advocate General. I practised in district courts, rent control courts and consumer courts..My senior had a lot of cases in the original and the writ side. The Madras High Court, being a chartered court, has original jurisdiction, so we received a lot of exposure on the original side..I started independent practice in 1996 and was appointed Standing Counsel for a number of government bodies. In 2001, I was appointed as central government standing counsel..AK: Was is it difficult in the beginning?.PW: Initially, all litigating lawyers have teething problems. Once you reach the courts, you find yourself in an entirely different system. Those days, we didn’t have internships, so we weren’t exposed to it. On entering practice right after law school, we found it difficult to understand court procedures. In the beginning, we were used by seniors for adjournments. Later, they would entrust us with arguing matters..AK: You were the youngest Additional Solicitor General of Tamil Nadu. How would you describe that experience?.PW: The post carried a lot of responsibilities, so I had to be well equipped. While representing the central government, I often didn’t get instructions in time. In those days, the state did not provide adequate infrastructure to a law officer of the stature of an Additional Solicitor General. There was no office, no staff, no computers, not even a telephone..In those days, the state did not provide adequate infrastructure to a law officer of the stature of an Assistant Solicitor General. There was no office, no staff, no computers, not even a telephone..When I became ASG in 2006, the then Chief Justice of the Madras High Court, Justice AP Shah was kind enough to give me a chamber on the high court premises. In fact, he called the Assistant Registrar, who was occupying a room which was situated near all the court rooms, and told him to vacate the room by the same evening to accommodate me..AK: You were instrumental in defending the state government’s policies related to the education system in Tamil Nadu..PW: In Tamil Nadu, there were four systems of school education. When the state government wanted to bring in a unified system of education, it was fought in the court. On one side, you had the biggest senior counsels representing the private schools. On the other side, I was defending the government’s move. The matter later went to the Supreme Court and I succeeded in bringing the uniform system in place..Once the government changed, the new government wanted to do away with this system. I appeared in a PIL filed to stay the amendment of the Act, and was again successful..The DMK government also wanted to regulate school fees, for which they brought it in the Tamil Nadu Schools (Regulation of Collection of Fee) Act. This the first Act of its kind in the country; the concept was referred to by the Supreme Court in many cases including TMA Pai..The schools felt that if the Act was passed, their control over the education of system might go. These were schools that were charging 2-3 lakhs per year, for which there was no basis. Therefore, only the children of rich parents could go to these schools..This matter also found its way to the courts, with the schools claiming that their fundamental rights were being violated. I defended the legislation in the High Court, with a team of government lawyers and we succeeded in showing to the court as to how the owners of these schools were minting money and purchasing estates in foreign countries. What they were doing amounted to commercialization of education..Taking all things into consideration, we were able to come up with a fee structure that was reasonable. Today, you will find that parents are not financially encumbered; previously, you would find them mortgaging their jewellery in order to afford the school fees..AK: But isn’t there a possibility of the standard of education being lowered?.PW: Those studying in remote areas didn’t have access to the education a child from the city received. This disparity is taken away by the uniform system of education. It doesn’t mean that the education standard in the best schools is lowered, it just makes the standard equal everywhere..AK: How would you compare your experiences at the Supreme Court and the Madras High Court?.PW: In the Supreme Court, we know the cases in advance, so that helps us plan our arguments better. On the other hand, at the high court, there will be sudden listing of cases, so it is more difficult to be fully prepared. Having said that, the judges understand this and are willing to accommodate us..AK: Should advocates be allowed to apply to become seniors?.PW: Yes, because there is a thorough procedure in place. While applying to become a senior, the court asks for the applicant’s income tax returns, the details of the number of cases he has appeared in, and for two other Senior Advocates to nominate them. After getting this information, the Full Court Committee decides on who should be conferred with the title. I became a Senior Advocate at the age of 42. When I applied, only those applicants with two-thirds of the votes could be conferred the title. Out of 20 applicants, only 3 got two-thirds of the Committee’s votes..AK: What is the reason for the high pendency of cases?.PW: I would only blame our Bar. At the Madras High Court, our Chief Justice has taken the best efforts to reduce pendency. As soon as he became Chief Justice, he recommended nine new judges for the high court. But, there were a lot of problems; people with vested interests blocked the names. While he wanted to fill up the vacancies, the Bar did not allow him to do it. What they don’t realize is that ultimately, it is the Bar that suffers..While he wanted to fill up the vacancies, the Bar did not allow him to do it. What they don’t realize is that ultimately, it is the Bar that suffers..AK: What changes have you seen at the Bar and the Bench over the years?.PW: As far as the Madras High Court is concerned, we have a chequered history. It is one of the chartered courts; even the Supreme Court was originally established here. A lot of constitutional cases emanated from our high court. Eminent lawyers like KK Venugopal and K Parasaran, who are currently in the Supreme Court, had beginnings here..At the Bar, I find that the new entrants over the last 4-5 years are not working hard. They have to understand that they have to work hard to expect good returns. Young lawyers, who are not guided properly are getting restless. That is the reason we see boycotts and other problems at the high court. The duty lies on the senior lawyers and the government to frame some procedures to prevent this..Another reason is the quality of legal education in the state. Currently, the government is opposed to having too many private law colleges. The standard needs to be improved at the government law colleges..The persons who are indulging in agitations are the ones that don’t regularly appear in courts. Those that do not take the profession seriously must not be allowed inside the campus..AK: Has it reached a point where something drastic needs to be done?.PW: Earlier, the government had introduced a scheme to give a stipend to juniors. This helped the fresh lawyers, especially those from difficult backgrounds, to survive the initial years of this profession. Unfortunately, this has stopped, due to various reasons..I feel that self-introspection is the only cure to these constant strikes and agitations. People seem to have forgotten that this is a noble profession. A client comes to you and sees you as a God. He puts all his trust in you, and therefore you owe it to him to be disciplined..People seem to have forgotten that this is a noble profession. A client comes to you and sees you as a God. He puts all his trust in you, and therefore you owe it to him to be disciplined..AK: Chief Justice Kaul recently spoke about the introduction of an AoR system at the high court. Do you think this is a solution?.PW: It is a tested procedure which exists in the Supreme Court, but I don’t know how exactly the high court is going to bring this system into place. It may yield results by eliminating persons who are not really interested in the profession. It would be a good move in order to make this profession more respectable and the advocates more responsible.
